(air whooshing) Collaborations or collabs are all the rage in music and art and fashion. You see it a lot with the X in brand collabs. And no, not like SpaceX, but think famous person X, big name brand. Maybe we should bring that X into space a bit more because collabs in space, so hot right now. Remember Prada X Axiom with the fancy space suit announcement not that long ago? Yeah, well, we can add a few more to that list like ISRO X ASSA, and even JAXA X ESA. Some excellent opportunities ahead. T-minus. 20 seconds to LOS, P-dress. Open aboard. Today is November 21st, 2024. I'm Maria Varmasus and this is T-minus. (upbeat music) JAXA and ESA expand their collaboration plans. ISRO is working more closely with Australia for GaGaNyan. ESA awards Arian Group another 230 million euros for Femis. And our guest today is Liz Chang, space law candidate at the American University Washington College of Law, who we talked with recently at the Beyond Earth Symposium. It's Thursday, let's dive into our Intel briefing, shall we? JAXA and ESA are strengthening their partnership with new missions, tackling planetary defense, climate monitoring, and lunar and Mars exploration. Agency leaders Hiroshi Yamakawa and Yosef Oshbacher met in Tsukuba, Japan to confirm plans for deeper collaboration across these critical areas. Diving into a little bit of what the two agencies agreed to, here's a bit of the rundown. JAXA and ESA highlighted ESA's HERA asteroid mission, which is now en route to its target with JAXA's support as a model for future planetary defense projects. They're exploring contributions to ESA's rapid Apophis mission for space safety, which will study asteroid Apophis during its close Earth flyby in 2029, mark your calendars. And in Earth observation, the agencies plan to close monitoring gaps by developing a joint mission focused on city scale greenhouse gas emissions, complimenting their ongoing climate efforts. On lunar exploration, JAXA and ESA plan to continue work on technologies like ESA's Argonaut cargo lander and JAXA's pressurized rover, alongside plans for joint lunar analog testing and robotic missions. Mentioned this part of the long-term vision was a potential collaborative Mars mission in the 2030s. And during the meeting between the two agencies, they also reviewed their ongoing science efforts, including ESA's new Athena X-ray Observatory and JAXA's light bird cosmic microwave mission. And they both looked ahead to potential future collaborative missions. Very cool. And speaking of collaboration, ISRO and the Australian Space Agency, or ASSA, have signed an implementation agreement to enhance collaboration on India's Gaganian Human Spaceflight Program. And the agreement focuses on contingency support, which enables Australian authorities to assist with crew and module recovery operations in the event of an ascent abort near Australian waters. And a quick refresher for you listeners on the Gaganian Program. It aims to demonstrate India's human spaceflight capability by sending up to three crew members to lower Earth orbit for three days aboard an Indian crew module, followed by a safe recovery. And the Gaganian Program includes three uncrewed missions and one crewed mission, with the first uncrewed launch expected late this year or in 2025. And the crewed mission planned for as soon as 2025. The European Space Agency has awarded 230 million euros in new contracts to Arian Group for the continued development of reusable rocket technologies. And the funding will specifically support the creation of a second Themis demonstrator and upgrades to the Prometheus engine, advancing Europe's efforts towards competitive reusable launch systems. Themis is ISSA's reusable rocket stage demonstrator, and it will see enhancements on its next iteration, including upgraded structures and propellant tanks for higher altitude, longer duration hot tests planned at the Arian Space Range Space Center in Sweden. And the low-cost reusable engine Prometheus will undergo further refinements to improve industrial manufacturability and maintenance. ISSA also plans to renovate test infrastructure in Vernon, France to facilitate long duration engine tests. And the contracts also fund research into recovery technologies, such as grid fin stabilizers and contribute to the development of Maya Space's Maya rocket, which is a partially reusable commercial vehicle that will use Themis and Prometheus designs. By the way, the first Themis flight is slated for 2025, which will mark a critical step in Europe's bid to compete in the growing market for reusable spaceflight. Lunar Outpost has partnered with SpaceX to deliver its lunar terrain vehicle named the Lunar Outpost Eagle to the moon using SpaceX's Starship for both launch and landing. And the collab aims to enhance lunar surface mobility, supporting NASA's Artemis program and facilitating sustainable commercial access to the moon. The Eagle LTV, our lunar terrain vehicle, is designed for both crewed and uncrewed missions and features advanced autonomous navigation and adaptable cargo configurations. It's engineered to withstand the moon's harsh conditions, including long lunar nights, ensuring extended operational life. And the development team includes LIDOS, MDA Space, Goodyear, and General Motors. Space debris caused yet another debris avoidance maneuver by the ISS recently. NASA is sharing that earlier this week, on November 19th to be precise, the ISS executed a predetermined debris avoidance maneuver, or PDAM, to evade a fragment from a defunct defense meteorological satellite that disintegrated back in 2015. At 2.09 pm CST, the Progress 89 spacecraft's thrusters fired for five minutes and 31 seconds, elevating the ISS's orbit to ensure a safe distance from the debris, which was projected to pass within approximately two and a half miles of the station. The maneuver was coordinated by NASA, Roscosmos, and other international partners, and did not disrupt station operations or affect the scheduled launch of the Progress 90 cargo craft. And speaking of Progress 90, this morning at 7.22 am EST, Russia's uncrewed Progress 90 spacecraft launched from Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan, carrying fresh food and supplies for the International Space Station's Expedition 72 crew. And the spacecraft is scheduled to dock with the ISS's Poisk module on November 23rd at approximately 9.35 am EST. Progress 90 is expected to remain docked for six months during which it will also assist in maneuvering the ISS to avoid space debris, just like the PDAM-2 that was just mentioned, and maintain the ISS's orbit. Upon mission completion, the spacecraft will be loaded with trash and intentionally de-orbited to burn up an Earth's atmosphere. And in terms of human spaceflight, we've got some big news for Blue Origin's new Glenn rocket. It was rolled out to the launch pad for a static fire test on the pad, and this is a big milestone before the inaugural flight of Blue Origin's orbital rocket. Best of luck to them. Brazil's state-owned telecommunications company, Telebras, has entered into an agreement with China's SpaceSale to offer satellite broadband services as an alternative to Starlink. This partnership aims to enhance connectivity options, particularly in remote areas, by using the SpaceSales's Thousand Sales Constellation. And although SpaceSale has launched 36 satellites and plans to expand to over 600 by the end of 2025, commercial services in Brazil are expected to commence in 2026. And this collaboration reflects Brazil's strategy to diversify its internet service providers and reduce reliance on existing operators like, oh, I don't know, SpaceX. TRL Space, which is leading a consortium of European aerospace companies, has initiated the Lunar Mission Initiative, or the LUMI, to explore the moon's south pole. And the mission intends to assess the region's potential for future human habitation and resource utilization. And that consortium, by the way, includes partners such as Airbus Defense and Space, Calisthenia Space, and OHBSE, each contributing specialized expertise. Now the LUMI mission will deploy a suite of scientific instruments to study the lunar surface and subsurface, focusing on the detection of water ice and other volatiles. (upbeat music) And that is our Intel brief for you today. Our selected reading section of our show notes has all of the stories that I've covered with you today and two extras. One's a picture of the first time that astronomers have photographed a dying star outside our galaxy. On how cool is that? And another one is on biological supplements to support astronaut health. I wonder if they'll be chewables. Hey T-minus crew, if your business is looking to grow your voice in the industry, expand the reach of your thought leadership, or recruit talent, T-minus can help. We'd like to hear from you. Send us an email at space@ntuk.com or send us a note through our website so we can connect about building a program to meet your goals. (upbeat music) Today's interview is with Liz Chang, who is both a space law candidate at the American University Washington College of Law and a T-minus listener. Hi Liz. She and I chatted at the Beyond Earth Symposium. - Hi everyone, my name is Liz Chang. I'm a second year law student here at American University Washington College of Law. I'm also associate editor here at Beyond Earth for our Space Policy Review, which just came out recently. - Yes. - I'm very excited to be here talking with you, Ms. Vermusses. I am a huge fan, you have no idea. We met yesterday, but I've been hearing your voice all year. And when I heard your voice yesterday, I thought, oh my goodness, what is this voice calling out? Like, I know this voice so well, but I've never seen you in your life, so it's really an honor. - We haven't paid her to say this everybody. This is my promise to you. - No, no, no. It really is so nice to be able to speak with you today. - I'm blushing, so thank you. Really, it's really sweet of you to say that. - I made it. - Liz, one of the things that I was saying to you yesterday is to me, you are getting into space law at like the most amazing time. - Definitely. - Can you tell us a bit about your story, about how you found space law as you're calling, 'cause I think that's a really cool story. - I mean, I love to tell it. I can't get enough, but basically, I kind of stumbled on space law. I was originally a dual law business student in Spain at this university called IE University. And I was involved a lot in the MUN debate world. And one of the conferences we went to was at the actually United Nations headquarters in Geneva. So I felt super important. I went to this committee called the Futuristic Legal Subcommittee on the Futuristic Uses of Space, so that had to do with semi-autonomous weapons in space. That had to do with international treaties, et cetera. So I remember being in this committee and thinking, why on earth are we calling this the Futuristic Committee when these things have been happening for a while now? And since then, I have not been able to get rid of it. You know, like it's in the back of my head always. And towards the end of my undergrad, my undergrad career, I wrote a thesis on liabilities for damages to space law. It's about the difference to space objects and the differences between who's responsible for whether it's the government or private space actors. I almost lost my mind researching on it because it's definitely a very niche area. And I remember even a week before I submitted my thesis, I had to rewrite a half of it because new news came out on what Elon was doing or what private companies are doing around the world. And I realized, I've been researching this for however many years and I'm not sick of it. It's just things that for me has always been at the intersection of all my interests, international policy, domestic policy and law, of course. So that's where I'm at now. And I'm here doing my JD and hoping to pursue it. I love it. And I'm repeating a little bit of what I said to you yesterday, but since the audience hasn't heard it, I'll just hear me a little bit. That patchwork of who owns what, what is the jurisdiction, who do we contact if there's an incident? I come from a cybersecurity world. So for me, it's amazing. There's a little bit of an overlap there in terms of nobody's really sure. And everyone's trying to figure this out. So it's amazing as a person who is not in law at all, just how complicated this is. Oh, it's true. I think a lot of us think there's just a unilateral-- like somebody's in charge up there. It's really complicated. And it's also fascinating, like a fascinating problem to be unraveling. So I'm envious of where you are. You're at the forefront of this really cool place. So you're also working with Beyond Earth? Yes. And the space policy-- sorry, I can never remember. The space policy review, yes. Space policy review. It's a very fascinating, really in-depth-- I keep calling it a compendium, because in my mind, it feels like the right word for this. Tell me a little bit about the work you did on this. Perfect. Well, as a law student, I don't know if any of the listeners here are law students as well, but I did a lot of bluebooking. I hope-- sorry, that's a trigger warning for all the law students or a lot of people listening. I did a lot of citations, bluebooking, spading, making sure, obviously, that the resources are up to date, because a lot of these updates, again, are very dependent on things that are happening currently. So when you publish something or want to publish something, you have to make sure that you are given the freshest information possible, of course. So that's what I was doing, essentially, as well as research. There's many topics that-- there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. You have to approach it from, I guess, a triangulatory kind of way. I don't know if that's even a word, but-- We'll say it. We'll say it is, but looking at different approaches, both government perspective, consumer perspective, and saying, making sure we are able to cater to the audience that's going to be reading this potentially. Yeah. That's amazing. And that's-- I think also speaks so much to a lot of people when they think of what's going on in space and what kind of work needs to be done in space. Go rocket science. A lot of work has to be done in law and the kind of procedural work that you did. I don't know if procedure is correct. Not in legal way, but process. And it's all very necessary. And it's very encouraging to me to know that there are folks like yourself who are working on this, because it's so needed. And for those of us who are not necessarily in the STEM world, there are careers out there. Absolutely. It's very encouraging. I'm just like, I love that. What are you excited about? What are you interested in? Oh my goodness. What am I not excited about? I mean, I'll be honest. The fact that it's so unknown, even though it's scary, it's one of those things that when you're uncomfortable going into something that you know has a vision, has a direction, that it's moving somewhere, it becomes more exciting than anything. And what I'm excited about in terms of space law is the fact that it's very rare as a law student or anybody who likes the law to be at the cusp being able to observe a new branch of law being born, essentially. Yes. That's not something that-- I mean, I feel lucky in my lifetime to be able to witness that, to be able to witness the new rules that are going to be affecting future generations, our children, our grandchildren. And maybe I'm not going to be at the forefront of seeing civilizations on Mars, for example, right? But we are at that moment where we can see this birth of ideas that in the past were just in the movies. I always saw-- I used to read Ray Bradbury when I was a kid. Yeah, same. Same. I was a big science fiction fan. I honestly should have known that this was going to be my career path. When I look back into my life, I'm like, I should have known. That space was going to be a probably a topic in my life. But in terms of space on why I'm excited about it, is again, we're witnessing something historic, honestly. And I really encourage other people that are listening to this podcast, and especially law students, people that are in the legal field to get into this, because we need more people. It's something that I keep hearing a lot, both from new actors and actors that have been in this for a long time in the government, agencies, and also private companies, that we need more people figuring out how we can get things to space and people to space in the right way. Yeah. Which is very-- the right way is not defined yet, but hoping to get through there. Yeah. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] We'll be right back. Welcome back. Let's turn now to a cosmic discovery that's not just big. It's just a witty-witty baby. Astronomers have spotted a massive newborn planet, only 3 million years old. See? It's a baby in cosmic terms. And this young world lies in the Taurus molecular cloud, which is a stellar nursery teaming with newborn stars just 430 light years away, practically next door. And the name of this young world-- Iris04125+2902B. OK, that one does not roll off the tongue, but I'm sure someone will think of a catchier nickname. Let's just call it baby Iris for my own sake. And what makes this discovery so remarkable is the sheer luck involved. Because normally, baby planets like this one are hidden behind dense disks of debris. But this time, the disk surrounding baby Iris is oddly warped, giving astronomers an unexpected front row seat using the TESS telescope. Babies do sometimes come into this world with funny-shaped heads and all. You know how it goes. Well, this lucky warpness lets scientists get a better look at the baby in question. Like, it's low density and inflated atmosphere. All signs that it could maybe become, eventually, a mini Neptune or even a super Earth. We've got big dreams for this baby. So just exactly how this disk got so warped is still up for debate. Was it a migrating planet, a meddling companion star, or maybe just the chaos of a packed stellar nursery that bumped it? Either way, this discovery opens a window into the earliest days of planetary evolution and reminds us how much of the universe's story is shaped by a little serendipity, maybe even a little boo boo. [MUSIC PLAYING] And that's it for "T-Minus" for November 21st, 2024, brought to you by N2K Cyberwire. For additional resources from today's report, check out our show notes at space.n2k.com. And we're privileged that N2K and podcasts like "T-Minus" are part of the daily routine of many of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector, from the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies. This episode was produced by Alice Carruth. Our associate producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester, with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Iben. Our executive editor is Brandon Karpf. Simone Petrella is our president. Peter Kilby is our publisher. And I am your host, Maria Varmazes. Thanks for listening. We see you tomorrow. [MUSIC PLAYING] T-Minus. [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]
