NASA's Crew Health and Performance Exploration Analog Program, better known as CHAPEA, is a series of analog missions that simulate year-long stays on the surface of Mars, with the goal of helping NASA better understand what a stay on Mars actual might be like and better prepare for it. Each CHIPIA mission will consist of four crew members in total isolation in the Mars-Dune Alpha habitat. And we at T-Minus all tuned in to watch the egress of the first CHIPIA crew in July, after they spent more than a year in isolation in service of their mission. And with today's guest, we're going to find out more about CHIPIA and what it was like to command the first CHIPIA crew. [Music] Welcome to T-Minus Deep Space from N2K Networks. I'm Maria Vermazes. Dr. Kelly Haston was the commander of the CHIPIA mission 1, which ran from June 25, 2023, and ended on July 6, 2024. She spent over 12 months in an isolated 1,700 square foot habitat with three other crew members. Dr. Haston shares her experience with us. My name is Kelly Haston. I'm the commander of CHIPIA 1, which is a one-year Mars analog mission that just completed with NASA out of Johnson Space Center. Congratulations on your egress. I watched the live video of you all coming out. I just, I just, okay, I said I wouldn't fangirl and I'm fangirling. Just so in awe of what the four of you did, just absolutely amazing work. Oh my gosh. So let's just start with the beginning. When you heard about this mission, I mean, it's an incredible opportunity to advance our understanding and so much science, so much data can be done. But it is a big commitment, obviously, you know better than anybody. So what was your motivation for wanting to join? So as background, I'm a stem cell biologist and I've been interested in sort of how you can use, so I build models of human disease and development using human stem cells. I'm super interested in using those models to explore issues of space travel and space exploration because you can send animal models to space, but human models are always, in my opinion, better. I'm a human modelist, that's me. But so I had been talking to the lunar biology folk for several years in and around that field. I was really interested in all of that, but to be honest, I'm Canadian and I've lived in the US for a long time. I did all my schooling here, but I only got my green card in 2021. So I haven't actually been eligible for jobs in foreign, in national settings like NASA. So I was sort of tangential. I was like talking to people on the edge of things and collaborating and sort of thinking about the problem. And I also, in my spare time, am an ultra runner. And so I love being in the outdoors. I do a lot of backpacking as well. So I like being in sort of challenging conditions with very small resourcing. So believe it or not, my partner found this. He was looking at the news one Saturday after we'd gone for a run and he goes, "Oh, NASA's looking for people to do a one-year Mars analog mission." And he goes, "This looks perfect for you." And he sent it to me. And I looked at it and I thought, wow, this brings together all the things that I'm interested in, like the idea of space travel, sort of this challenge of being in austere conditions and making a teamwork. And then just also like the experimental side of things. I'm not a human. I don't experiment with full human beings the way the people that ran this experiment do. Just such an interesting problem though. And so, and it was an opportunity to contribute in a space that I didn't think I was going to be able to, given that I had just sort of moved into the realm of even being relatively eligible. So that kind of came together as a perfect thing. And I will be honest, I sat there and I think for five or six hours just build out the application. It wasn't really that long, but I was really thinking through my questions and I just didn't move. I was super excited just by answering the questions. It was so much fun. It made me think about new aspects of sort of the problem as well. Okay. It sounds like it was meant to be. So I'm so glad that you got to be a part of it. I mean, that's amazing. So, I mean, you were there for over a year. It's like, how do you take apart over a year of something like that? So let's start with, I imagine you must have, before you started, had a bunch of expectations or maybe you imagine what it would be like. Did the actual experience live up to what you experienced? Was it completely different? I mean, where do we even start with that? Yeah. So all great questions. So for starts during the evaluation period, I got to know the other crew members, even before I knew who would be prime, as NASA likes to call it, who were the people that would actually be going on the mission. I got to know many of the people that were there. And we were a collaborative group right from the start. It was actually, it was one of those settings where when you arrive, you're feeling a little nervous and then when you start to talk to folks, you're just like immediately you swat into like, oh, these are my people. You know, I mean, it's that kind of feeling and it really was. So even in the lead up to the mission, and there was a fairly long time between us being selected and us going on the mission, this being the first iteration of this one, there was a little extra time, I think, compared to the next one. But we collaborated on everything. We talked about, you know, I mean, certainly, you know, NASA had primed us on like some of the things that they were talking about. They, you know, they gave us the set of information that they wanted us to have. But the crew itself, what is an extremely smart, knowledgeable group that has a ton of knowledge base in all sorts of different areas. And I'll have vast interest in space exploration. So that was actually super helpful to be, and so like to give an example, we collaborated on everything from, you know, we had a certain amount of data size that we were able to bring and a certain weight restriction on our personal items. And we collaborated on like what data, what shows, what music we were going to bring. So no one actually was redundant. We tried to really reduce our redundancy, maximize our opportunity to take the most, you know, the most maximum amount of items that we could have. We also did the same for, you know, for example, for special holiday items, if we were going to try to accomplish that. So if we were going to do a Christmas or some kind of birthday holiday, you know, we all were pretty collaborative on like what we could actually bring along. And so in the end, it ended up being that I felt very ready for, as you say, the expectation of it, what is this going to look like with this group of people? Now, having said that, it's still different, right? You know, an analog is a simulation. So it's not, of course, being on Mars. It's the best attempt you can make to answer the questions of interest. And so there's compromises in different places. And those compromises were not always clear to me until I was actually in the mission, some of which I can only be a little beg on because I don't want to spoil things for the next mission. But, and not in a bad way, but, you know, there are things that are more realistic versus less. I would use an example of, you know, I had some expectations for what are the spacesuit we would wear on EVAs or extubricular activities when we went out onto the Martian surface would feel like. And although we tested that a little bit in training, until you're out there doing day after day of activity, you don't have as good a sense of how that equipment is going to wear on you and, you know, so you can prepare a lot. And so I'm very pleased to say that I think that as a crew, we prepared really well. And I also feel like personally, like I brought the right amount of personal items that I wanted to do in my spare time, like I'm a crafter. So I basically embroidered like everything you could imagine to do with the mission. I embroidered our patch. I embroidered the maps and meat with meatballs. I mean, I just really like, you know, that was my thing. And so, and I did some knitting and things like that. So, so yeah, so those were all really great. That was probably a long answer for you, but. Love the answer. It's all good. And a nice show, though, like there were definitely things that were exactly what I expected. I was really well prepared to have the restrictions on food. The restriction on, on, you know, communication was, of course, not what we knew about that. How you handle that and how you handle that individually with each of your people ends up being very much a work in progress. So some people really went, you know, flipped from like texting and talking in real time to email very well. Other people hated it and I ended up flipping them to audio like somewhere along in the mission. Video was very data intensive. So I tended to save that for my partner just because it was, it was a really big lift and you could only do very short ones anyway. So, so there were like things like that that you really got, you only got experience of and you could only really like ever have that shared experience of it with your colleagues that were in there with you in the end because it is hard to explain some of that stuff. And but, but there were like sort of like mitigations that I came up with along the way of things that I didn't expect. Like I didn't expect that some people would just hate email because you know, you know, you forget that we don't talk like that to each other anymore really, right? I know, I know. It's like back when we all had to send letters and wait for months for a reply. It's like, why are we still doing this? But still, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, it's, yeah, that delay and I, again, as you just mentioned the, the having to conserve data, I never would have thought of that, but you're right. You have to prioritize and sorry. You said so many fascinating things and I, as a fellow crafter, I, that you answered something that I was very curious about, about how, how one passes the time and my brain goes, okay, like people used to before we had such a fast paced lifestyle. But of course you had that space restriction. So, so embroidery makes a lot of sense. Knitting you mentioned, that's a really smart one too. It's also, all these things are also very practical, makes sense. I think that's the question everybody's wondering is like, how do you feel so much time? I mean, I'm sure you were all super busy, but there's also a lot of downtime and all of us experienced a tiny flavor of that with COVID, but nothing on the scale of what you all went through, experienced. Yeah. No, you know, it's, it's true. And that was a challenge for sure. You are so used to having a busy life and, and, and when you get bored, you can go outside and find something new to do or, or call a friend and do that, you know, or whatever. So, so I will say that like that downtime and filling it is something that is going to be a huge challenge for people on a two, three year, five year mission, right? Where you have the same, you know, same group of people for that, like the time that crew was really inventive. We came up with games and fly the habitats. So we definitely found, we were one of those groups that we threw nothing away, like during the mission. Like if there was something that could be utilized as a secondary resource, we kept it and made something of it. Or, you know, so we were, we were very inventive that way. But we, as I said, we collaborated on, you know, items that we would have. We had a set number of games. So we did play games. We, some of the crew, I was not a video person or a video game person, but there was, there was a limited number of video games. And certainly many of the crew were really into that and, and had like elaborate strategies for their different games and things like that. And we also read all of us are big readers and we all, I think I read, I think I read over a hundred books. And so I would say, you know, I mean, some of them were absolute, you know, sort of mindfulness like five, five fun and others were deeper, sort of like meaningful books that I'd been, you know, had on my list for years. So it was actually a really nice mix that way. But, but, you know, to, to relax even you really do want to sort of be transported away. So there were a number of things that we did, but you're right that you have to be really thoughtful and intentional when you're packing, because you don't have the opportunity to do anything else. Like we had a 3D printer, which was mostly resourced for the mission in a real mission. You may be able to maybe use some of your weight restriction for filament so that you can actually 3D print a few of your own things. But if you ended up breaking that printer for your own personal use, then you wouldn't have it for the mission. So you have to also think about like, what are the items that I'm using and what importance are they and how am I going to risk them? Because risk mitigation is as much your, your role as it is ground controls at that point. Like you're there and you're the only people controlling your resources. They're not going to come in and fix it for you. So I, or, or you have to get it sent. And of course, like now with ISS, we see that being not super hard, you know, they get resupplied frequently unless something blows up. But on Mars, most of the items will be pre-positioned. So all the thinking has to occur beforehand. And I think that's going to be a huge challenge as well. We'll be right back after this quick break. As you're talking about all this, I'm just thinking anyone who's ever been interested in like survivalist stuff is just going, yeah. Because it's your, you have to be so smart about that resource use and the managing the self also. I mean, just that, what a challenge. What an incredible challenge. That's why I have so much respect for all of you because that I just cannot begin to imagine the habitat you all lived in is about the same square footage as of my home. And it's only three of us. And of course, most of it is not dedicated to mission work. So I'm just like, how? Oh, I mean, that was your home for a year. Can you walk me through it? Like give me a map of what it was like. Yeah, sure. You know, it's so kudos to the designers because it actually felt quite spacious to us. And I think that, you know, again, the intentionality of the way the mission was thought through and how it was executed speaks to that. So I really love the fact that that was definitely part of, I think, the way NASA thought about it, how can we make a small habitat feel good to people? The other thing was that they had, we had a bedroom. Each of us had a bedroom. It wasn't super large. And you had a twin bed and an upspace. I had a standing desk, which actually was huge for me because I love to stand instead of sit at my work. Even in my workout, I stand at the hood when I'm doing cell culture. I never sit. So that was actually, you know, little things like that can go a long way. And the flight engineer Ross Buckwell, he always talks about like little things actually mattering a lot. And that was very true. So having your own room, really key on a long mission. And I believe that was something that was really important to them relative to like short and during space flight, you may not have your own room. Probably not. And so that was very nice. You had your own space. And for me, that also meant that you could keep the public spaces a lot clearer because you could do most of your personal things in there. And then we had a galley and sort of rec area that was together, you know, sort of kitchen area along with sort of some recreational youth, a table that we used for dinner. We continued for the whole mission to eat most meals together. But in particular dinner, we pretty much had, I mean, probably 95 to 99% of the time we ate dinner together throughout the mission and along with other social activities that we continued the whole time. But that table was really ended up being one of the things that we used for meetings, for prep, for, you know, all sorts of things. And that was really critical. And then we had almost an equal amount of space that as you said was dedicated to mission specific tasks. So we had a workspace that had both our science area and more of our engineering components as well. We had a room dedicated to the actions that we would take for when you are intervehicular or when you're the IV or MCC for the EVAs. That was as important a role, obviously. You need someone inside guiding the people on the outside that are on the Martian surface. That was a dedicated space. It actually was really high use. We had an exercise room because we had to exercise daily in the same way that you would if you go to space. And it was prescribed. So we had to actually exercise in a prescribed manner. And then we had a med bay, which luckily was, you know, we could flex that out and use it for other things, but an important thing to have if we do have injuries. So we actually, it had a screen in it. We were able to use it as a second TV room so that people could break off and do additional things there and stuff like that. And then of course, bathrooms. We were lucky enough to have two bathroom areas and that really diversified that and made that a little more pleasant for two people. But if you had one go down, you can see that you'll always need like, you know, personal health and hygiene is something where you need redundancy. Yes. Critical. Because if you lose one toilet, you're not going to have, you know, without another one. And then on top of that, attached to the habitat were airlocks that led us to the outside and then an outdoor area that was covered and made to look like the Martian surface where we did either virtual reality or non-virtual reality activities, depending on what that day dictated in our sort of mission log. So we had a lot of different things going on in all of the, none of the spaces were single use. All of them had, you know, at least multiple uses with the exercise bay having several pieces of equipment in it, but still maybe being the only thing that was really truly like just for exercise. But you could even go in there and like do an audio if you really wanted just to like shut a door and be in a different room. So it was, it was, you know, multi-use in that way too. So that makes a lot of sense, honestly, to make the most use of the space you have. I know that I've been asking a lot of like what is life like and I want to get to the science also. Like the whole reason you're all there. So I thank you for indulging my curiosity about what that experience was like. Let's get a little bit into the science. What I imagine, my goodness, over a year of all this different work you all had to do, what can you tell me about what kind of work you are working on? There's two aspects to this mission, right? So this mission is an analog mission to collect human data for the scientists at NASA. That is the primary function of this analog is to actually gather information on human physiology and psychology and team dynamics during, you know, extreme isolation and resource limitations such as you would have on Mars. So obviously we were doing things that would actually collect data for the scientists along with everyday activities that are mimicking and are similar to what you would be doing on Mars. So we had science that we did inside. A little bit of blinded just because we have additional, there's two more missions coming and so we don't really talk about the details. But as you might imagine, we had everything that you could think of to, you know, you had science activities that would be what you would do if you were exploring a new planet. You had science activities that would be involved with maintenance both inside and outside the habitat of how you would actually maintain, you know, everything to do with living in an environment that is not friendly to Earthling biology. So you have all of those aspects. And again, we did the outside in a mix of virtual reality and non-VR. In all cases, we either built or maintained or fixed things that were going to be relevant to our experience there or were needed items for the science or the maintenance of life there. A plethora of activities there. And then sometimes we would collect things and bring them back in and do analysis inside as well. So we also had inside activities that were scientific. We took measurements inside the hub for a host of things. Again, some of them were to do with our health. Some of them were to do with the habitats, you know, sort of maintenance and how it was doing with us. So there was like a number of things that they were testing across time. So and most weeks had a particular flavor. So you know, some weeks we would be focused on doing VR, EVAs. Other weeks we would maybe be focused on doing maintenance inside the hub or trainings or etc. So it was really, it was actually a diversity of activities and science that we were doing. And I really do like to make that distinguishing sort of thing that we were being scientists while at the same time we were actually producing data, which is a really unique, it's a very unique sort of setting. So that's pretty exciting. That is what is so fascinating to me about your mission. And why I'm just like, I want to hear all about it. It's so fascinating to me. Okay. So I'm going to go back to the like what it was like life wise because 378 days, if I'm remembering that number correctly. So marking the passage of time in a non-earth, you know, you don't have the normal markers of what we are earthly seasons. I'd love to know sort of how you marked the passage of time and maybe if you had any favorite, you know, the commemorations. Yeah. So that's also a great question. And again, sort of getting to that intentionality. So one way you can continue to feel connected to your people back on earth is to really, you know, make a point of celebrating both your holidays or common holidays, but also their holidays. So like as an example, you know, making note of your crewmate, you know, partners birthdays or, you know, children's birthdays or whatever, you know, just thinking about what's going on on earth really helps us kind of mark that time. And then on top of that, we so we did have special days. We celebrated different holidays that were important to the crew. Examples would be we celebrated Canadian Thanksgiving because that's a different holiday than Americans have. And so that was, you know, sort of a nod for my family. We also, our med officer was really big on Christmas. And so we had a really tremendous Christmas where I think we watched, I can't, I've never seen that many Christmas movies. Like I know we watched a list. We all ended up actually having really fantastic gifts for each other, even with the weight restrictions. And so to be honest, that was really special. Some were, some were made inside, some were brought in, especially as part of your, you know, your weight. All were very intentional. We celebrated birthdays, but we also celebrated important days in the mission. So like the certain milestones that you would think of, there are obvious, like the 50, 100, 200, 300, you know, and so forth. And oftentimes we did that by, you know, celebrating, doing a special picture or set of picture, something that would, you know, highlight kind of, you know, and so one of my favorites as a holiday, Christmas, as I said, was very stupendous and really was, you know, very special to med, you know, our med officer and us. And I really enjoyed also St. Patrick's Day, which is where one of the, one of the guys figured out that if he shook one of our tea items in a shaker, it looked a little bit like beer. And so we could, we could, we could drink beer. There was no alcohol on this mission. So here we are with like a dried item that we're able to actually kind of make look like beer. So we posted to the beer on St. Patrick's Day. That was super fun. And then at P minus 100 days, so when we had only 100 days left, we, the crew got all into our jumpsuits and we did a montage of different shots for, for the things that we only had 100 left out. So things that we did once a day. So, you know, as an example, you weigh yourself every single day and record that. Like you, you take certain biometrics every single day. And so we took pictures of all of that and then we did a montage of it and sent it to Mission Control. And, you know, as kind of an acknowledgement for all of us that we only all had 100 days left to do all those things. And those were, those were like really fun, right? And you would share them with people that were helping you, you know, that, that were really running the mission. That meant a lot to all of us. And I think that that also, you know, it produced a sense of fun when we were doing it. And, you know, we would just, I think we were very, I think as a crew, we were truly well to do that. And everybody took turns kind of being, you know, I was generally the, the picture pusher. So I'd be like, God, a special day is coming. And I'm a terrible picture taker. So it was really funny that I got that job. But, but you know, but everybody had something like that. So, you know, in terms of like fun and games, you know, someone would be like, Oh, let's do this. Or, or somebody would have an idea for something to do or a movie or, or, you know, some, some readout that we could like do that would be fun. And I would say that one of the strengths of the crew on top of just, you know, being intentionally cohesive and working to be there for each other for the whole mission was that idea that we continued to really try to produce, you know, fun things to do for each other and, and be thoughtful about that throughout the mission. I mean, I think we played a card game on the last day while we were waiting for egress. We were talking with everything. And we were also keyed up. So I think we actually sat there and played cards or dice or something. I can't remember. But we were definitely like, so that was, that was very, we were, we were strong in that. And I think that that helps because yes, you're right. The monotony of daily life being very similar for that many days. It's not our norm on earth. Even with, even with COVID, we were most of us were still able to go outside and do things like that. So it really helped for us to be thoughtful in that. So it does give a nod to exactly the importance of play and, and the importance of intentional living, like thinking through how your, your week is going to be and what you're going to do that's special and, and making a point of making things special, which, you know, sometimes I think we forget or look past when we're so used to all the stimuli we have to hear. Yes. I was going to say, there's a great lesson in what you just said for all of us truly in how we live our lives, even not on Mars or Mars simulation. That's, that is such an important point. Something I'm definitely going to be taking away with, with for myself as I, as I think on this later, your egress was almost a month ago now. Are you still talking to the rest of the crew? Are we all like on break? Like, are you still in contact a lot? Yes. So we, we had two weeks of debrief. So we were together for another two weeks and we had a hurricane, which was actually obvious. Oh yes, a barrel. Yes, of course. Yeah. So we were together for the, the two weeks immediately afterwards. And as a matter of fact, I slew back home on the 20th of July. And I remember saying to my partner, this is the first day in about 14 months and I don't know exactly where every single one of my crew mates is. Because during training and during the mission and even after the mission, I kind of always knew where they were. So that was, but so we are still in contact and we still touch chat. We did take a little bit more of a break and it's definitely a little bit more like, you know, touching base and things, but, but we're still collaborating on some stuff and we're still, you know, trying really hard to, I think, maintain that, that, that contact. It'll just be in a different format. And everybody of course is pretty busy getting back to normal life and, and also giving some time to their loved ones because right now it's actually really awesome. But it's also like, you know, you have to really put that energy towards them because they helped us so much during the mission. So it's important to make sure that they're, that the people that you actually, they were supporting you back here get that time right now because, you know, it's, it's just without them, you wouldn't make it through no matter how great the crew did as a unit. You needed that support. You needed those people outside to be continuously giving you, you know, their, their, you know, that input, that, that richness of conversation that you were getting from them because then you felt like you hadn't left anything behind, but that they were with you. What an amazing experience you had. I'm just so honored that you're sharing just a little bit, just a tiny bit of this with me. I'm just, I've learned so much from you. And honestly, what an incredible mission you all were on. And just, just truly amazing how much you're, you're, you all are really advancing science with what your incredible sacrifice for over a year. So genuinely thank you for what you and your crew did. Just truly amazing. I'm seriously in awe of all of you. So and, and your loved ones who supported you because that is not a small thing either. So thank you so much. And thank you for telling me everything. I guess I said I could probably talk to you for hours, but I don't want to talk your ear off. So thank you so, so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much for the interest. And honestly, it's, it's this mission made me realize even more than I already did how tough space exploration and, you know, exploring places like Mars will be. It will take so many people and so much effort to do that for first humans. And I just, I love the fact that it ended up being successful because of the collaborative nature and because of just realizing how many people it took. So, so everybody that can get involved and be interested in this, the better that is, I think. So thank you for, for providing that platform of people thinking about it. That's it for T-minus Deep Space brought to you by N2K Networks. We'd love to know what you think of this podcast. You can email us at space@n2k.com or submit the survey in the show notes. Your feedback ensures we deliver the information that keeps you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. T-minus Deep Space is produced by Alice Carruth. Our associate producer is Liz Stokes. We are mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Iben. Our executive editor is Brandon Karp. Simone Petrella is our president. Peter Kilpe is our publisher. And I'm your host, Marie Overmazes. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. [MUSIC PLAYING] , [MUSIC PLAYING] . [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] (gentle music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
