Space and politics go hand in hand. You just have to look at the influence that space has on the new U.S. administration to see just how things are changing. So how does one advocate for the space industry in politically charged Washington, D.C.? Well, we're about to find out. [Music] Welcome to T-Minus Deep Space for N2K Networks. I'm Maria Varmazis. My guest today is John Neal, and John is the executive director of the Space Industry Council at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. In our discussion, John walks me through how his many career pivots have put him in the best position to support space companies on Capitol Hill. After undergrad, I was in ROTC, Navy ROTC at Notre Dame and spent some time in the Pacific in the Middle East as a Naval Intelligence Officer. My last job in the Navy was at the Pentagon, where I worked on several projects with NRO. So we got my sort of first taste of space and some of our national capabilities there. Following that, I went into the private sector at some various software companies, and then after 9/11, went to the FBI and was a special agent there for about 10 years with the Bureau. All that time, political science major was always interested in the intersection of policy and business. And so following the FBI, I spent some time on Capitol Hill as a staffer and then went back to the private sector where I worked on government affairs and sort of sales and business development roles. And one of those jobs, I spent some time at Planet Labs as a sales rep in their government organization and really saw all the potential that a company in the space industry presents to provide incredible technology and capabilities to the US government. And what a challenge it is to get those capabilities into, in my case, I was selling to the Marine Corps, the Navy and law enforcement. So into those operator's hands that, again, with my background, I was so passionate about helping those people that I had been one of those people in the past. So I sort of took that experience really when this opportunity at the Chamber presented itself about two and a half years ago. That really is informed how I think about my role today, leading the space policy program at the Chamber where we represent maybe 70 companies in the aerospace sector, both traditional aerospace and new space companies, everything from the big primes down to venture funded startups representing the entire spectrum of the industry. Wow. Okay, that is a really cool journey. Thank you for telling me about that, John. It's really interesting hearing the way that people work through different fascinating turns and what we learn from each stage in our career and where it brought you to where you are today. That's a really fascinating, so thank you. John, can you tell me a bit about, I'm sure every day is different, but a bit about what your day to day looks like right now. Yeah, I mean, right now, obviously with Washington, so much change happening. Right this second right now. Tracking that, interpreting it. But the day to day, I think, what we think about the Chamber is how can we help our companies in three areas. The first is the traditional DC policy. What's going on in Capitol Hill from a legislative perspective, and then what are the agencies, the bodies that regulate the space industry thinking about from a regulatory perspective. How does that impact our members' ability to do business and grow their companies and create jobs? So I'm thinking about that. I'm also thinking because of the Chamber's history, being here an advocate for American business, the relationships it has with foreign governments, allied partners, how can we help our companies get access to foreign markets and then be an advocate for our international partners with companies looking to do business with U.S. companies. And then thirdly, again, from my experience as a salesperson, from my experience as an FBI agent, thinking about building relationships with people. And as it pertains to the space industry, how can I connect our companies with their customers, stakeholders in other areas of the economy that stand a benefit from the products and services the space industry provides? The Chamber represents companies across the entire economy. Some of them use space now. Some of them may do so in the future. So I think helping our companies expand those relationships, build relationships with potential new partners is something I think about a lot, whether that's from a business perspective or new relationships on Capitol Hill and the federal government. When you are working on Capitol Hill, I'm so curious to, again, I know things right now are very much changing. But I guess the question is, what does that sound like? This is an area where I know so little and it seems like almost like a black box to me from the outside. So I'm sure, again, everything's very different depending on who you're talking to. But I'm just curious, like, sort of what that advocacy sounds like. Yeah, from a Capitol Hill staff perspective, I mean, it was a great job and a great experience. You know, it was one of the few jobs, you know, when I think about my life as an FBI agent versus working on the Hill staff. In the FBI, you're trying to get information from people. Or many jobs, right? You're trying to get information from people. Where's Capitol Hill? You're flooded with people who want to give you information. That's kind of nice. You know, you're on that receiving end and you get exposed to so many different issue sets up there. It's a great place to get started or think about, you know, again, how politics impacts, whether it's business, culture, whatever it may be. It's a tremendous experience of people up there very passionate about helping the American people. You know, I really enjoyed the policy work. The politics can be challenging sometimes, but I think that the exposure you get to different stakeholder groups, different interests and how you sort of build consensus and find ways to, you know, compromise, you know, get legislation, pass up benefits, American people, sort of those negotiating skills you get on the Hill are really valuable. I was going to say the persuasion game and building those relationships, 100%. I'm curious, are there maybe perceptions that you have heard that surprised you or that are very common that, you know, you have worked to change or maybe common feedback that you get that was surprising? I'm just curious if anything stands out on that. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think trying to find what really drives people, I think, you know, especially on the Hill, right, one of the first questions or even in Washington, you get asked Democrat, Republican, right? And I think you need to look beyond just that sort of external layer because I think if you spend time again, building relationships, which I think in Washington, probably we don't spend as much time as we used to for a variety of reasons. I think you can find common ground with a lot of people. And I think, you know, that's one of the great things about being at the chamber here because we're representing business and, you know, business is tends to be agnostic when it comes to politics, but you need to, so you need to find that common ground with whether it's Republicans or Democrats to advance the interests of American companies because at the end of the day, they impact everyone's lives, you know, at the kitchen table. Absolutely. So given the different roles that you've had, the different organizations you've worked with, I want to get a little bit into maybe your leadership style because this is me just trying to learn more about you as a person. How would you describe your leadership style? Yeah, definitely one, a listener, a person who wants to get the best out of my people. And that's thinking about, you know, what are their strengths and how can I help them sort of showcase their strengths while at the same time, you know, if we're identifying something that we all need to work on, we're all trying to improve, how can I at the same time help that person improve their weaknesses? You know, my goal at the end of the day when, you know, a person leaves my team is, you know, they're coming away better prepared for that next step in their life journey. So I think I'm a, you know, a team guy. So I come from a, you know, when I think about leadership, it's generally through a lens of team sports. And there's so much joy that I've gotten through success in a team environment playing sports. And you know, I apply that to my professional life here at the chamber as well as, you know, family life. I'm a coach of a couple of different youth basketball teams. I think everyone contributing to a common goal and the success that comes to get, can come from that. I think there's no better feeling or perspective you can take, you know, in various aspects of your life. I really appreciate that. And my daughter's very interested in basketball. So that's one of the reasons my husband and I are really encouraging her to pursue it is I think those lessons are, those come through really well. Yeah. It's great, great, great social, you know, there's obviously the athletic aspect, but the social interaction, right? So many kids today, you might just write the screen, you get them away from the screen time and get them into the gym. Absolutely. I completely agree with you. Given again, the nature of the different roles that you've had and the work that you do, I'm sure you are often up against incredible difficulties. And this, I feel like I'm doing a job interview. I promise it's not like that. No worries at all. I'm so curious about when you hit those roadblocks, which are inevitable, adversities of any kind. How do you handle that? Yeah, I think, and I, this, I think being a salesperson really helped me because I think any good salesperson will tell you, you have to accept and be, you know, be comfortable with rejection and being told, no, you might be a told 90 times out of a hundred, but, you know, 10 times out of a hundred, you know, it can be a very good success rate. And you have to keep, I think what you learn is just to be again, comfortable with it and know that, you know, when we talk about resilience, right? The buzzword of the day, picking up and moving on to the next opportunity, to the next discussion. And, you know, hopefully there's something you can learn from that rejection. Maybe that's not always the case, but not taking it personally and not letting it beat you down too much. I, you know, we're all competitive people and we all hate to lose, but you can't allow that to, to affect, you know, your, you know, outlook. And you have to pick up the pieces and move on to the next opportunity because that next opportunity is going to come along if, you know, you keep trying. The persistence, I think is really, really important. We'll be right back after this quick break. Absolutely. And yeah, I really appreciate what you're saying also about being resilient in the face of rejection because that is a, it's hard, it's hard lesson, really hard lesson. It really is. It's not fun, but it happens to all of us and, you know, there's no shame in that. I think it's, you know, how, how do you rebound from that rejection or that loss that really, you know, I think at the end of the day, that's what you can be really proud of. Absolutely. All right. I'm going to, I'm going to switch it back to space again. I, I, I love asking folks like yourself about what you're really interested in. What's got you jazzed about what's going on in the space industry right now? It doesn't have to be like right today right now, just in general, because I know things are always changing and what's got you interested. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's, it's, I think it's two things on the positive side, you know, I mean, this administration and its previous form did a lot on space, you know, creating the space for us, a lot of policy. So looking forward to seeing what their plans are for space and supporting the industry. I mean, obviously, you know, big, big promoters of the US industry as a whole. So I'm very excited to see what the future holds. And I'm very excited, you know, because the companies, I think we're on the cusp of a lot of, of change, right? We're all know about launch cadence, you know, exploding and we'll have another record setting launch year this year, but we're, I think we'll put more meat on the bone about NASA's plans about the international space station. I think, you know, in the next couple of years, we're going to see commercial space stations begin to take shape in low earth orbit. You know, all the capabilities that, you know, Earth observation is providing to disaster response, geopolitical insights. I think it will be really exciting now is sort of the analytics catch up and we get better products that are more usable into the hands of people who really need that data to make decisions. The ability of satellite communication to bridge the digital divide and really provide, you know, connectivity to people in the areas that never had that before. So I think there's a tremendous amount of things going on, you know, in addition to Artemis and, you know, exploration, what's going to happen in CIS lunar and lunar. It's going to be a really interesting couple of years here. And that's what I'm really excited about. And also what, you know, I think a lot about is how can we get the government to sort of match its rhetoric around the value that they see in the space industry and using commercial space products and technologies? How do we match that with actual budget dollars and funding that goes to these capabilities? I think that's, you know, we see that here at the Chamber as a gap between sort of, you know, the language and what we hear, you know, its speeches and conferences and the actual contracts that are being let and we want to see that gap closed. That's a fascinating point. Okay. So getting your crystal ball out a little bit with Trump 2.0 administration, what changes would you like to see in space policy or what might you be anticipating? Yeah. I mean, I think it will be, you know, again, will acquisition policy change in the terms of other things in the federal acquisition regulation of the FAR that we can streamline, right? Whether it's everything, you know, from working with DOD on security clearances to, you know, less compliance overhead burden on all our companies. Will we see sort of that pivot from a, hey, we're NASA or we're the NRO, we're going to build, you know, a capability ourselves to, okay, well, let's go out and see what's in the market. What can get us 80% of the solution and bring that in and compliment, right? You know, certain capabilities we want to be government build and run. But I think we've seen a lot of examples over the past year or two where, you know, there's commercial capabilities that can provide a lot of performance that's valuable to the US government. So will that be used? I think, you know, we've talked over the past couple of years, it's been a debate in Washington around mission authorization. So can we, you know, we've got multiple regulators of the space industry. Is that the best thing going forward or should we rethink things here? I think what we say at the chamber is space is not different, right? From a business perspective or a legal perspective than any other domain, we don't have to create, you know, special new regulations necessarily. But it is an opportunity as well to think of, you know, again, space, I think we've sort of cobbled together this regulatory framework. Is it the best thing considering how space is becoming more and more important? Yeah, that's a great point. If you had a call to action for the space industry, which I recognize is a very broad ask, but if you did, I'm just curious, what would you be urging everyone or colleagues in the space industry to be thinking about right now, especially at this time of change? Yeah, for sure. I think it's really around acquisition reform. You know, again, how do we, there's so much tremendous capability being developed by space companies and the broader technology ecosystem. How do we partner with government to get it in the government's hands to make them more capable? And I think a lot of that is around acquisition and procurement reform and we need to all band together collectively. I think there is a, you know, somewhat divide right between the bigger companies, the traditional companies and sort of these new, you know, let's say startups. Every company I talk to faces a lot of the same challenges, particularly when it comes to compliance and overhead burden. I think there's a lot of common ground there that we can go talk to the folks on Capitol Hill, the folks in the administration about, hey, can we make this a better system? You'll get more value out of it. That's great. Another great point. Thank you, John. I really appreciate this. This is amazing. I have just a really great insights here. I always like to ask if you have advice for people who are coming up in the industry or maybe looking to make a move parallel, upward, wherever. Again, given your incredible variations and roles that you've done, I'm so curious what your advice is, especially I'm thinking for folks that you manage, the advice you tend to give people. Yeah. No, thanks, Maria. Great question. I think, you know, for me is what I found, you know, especially being in the space when I haven't been here very long, but people are so passionate, right? The people I've worked with at companies or here at the chamber, they're so passionate about just space and what they're doing. Obviously, they want their companies to succeed. It's great. You're starting from a group of people who really love to come to work every day and work on these really challenging problems that space we face. What I would tell people is, you know, there's a lot to learn and being diverse, you know, you could go work at a software company or go do a variety of different things. Go work on Capitol Hill here. All your experiences will benefit, you know, that company you may work in, in the space industry. I think the companies that are doing really well have a diverse group of people who have experiences maybe outside of space that they brought into, you know, that company. I think running a company and succeeding as a company, there's a lot of complex things that all have to work together. Some of them have to do with, you know, a knowledge of space and the engineering and the science around it, but also just in that some human resources, you know, government affairs, marketing, there's a lot of talents from outside the industry that can be brought to bear to, I think, make it stronger over time. So even if you don't start off in space, that's where you want to get to maybe, you know, three to five years from now, continue to be persistent and know that all the experience that you, you know, collect will be super valuable to whatever company in the space industry you get to when you get there. That's great advice. And I think it also speaks volumes that the space industry seems ever more receptive to that outside expertise that people are bringing to bear, which is a wonderful trend to be seeing. So I think that's the timing is right. So it's really wonderful to see. John, again, I thank you for your time and I just want to make sure if there's anything that I missed that you wanted to share, anything you want to leave our audience with, the floor is yours. So anything you want to say? No, thanks, Brady. This was really fun. Again, like big fan of the podcast, I learn a lot from all your interviews. I would just say again, you know, the Chamber of Commerce, we represent member companies big and small across the whole country, across the entire economy. If we can be supportive to you and your business, your idea, you know, don't hesitate to reach out to me or to the broader Chamber. We'd love to connect with you. That's it for T-Minus Deep Space brought to you by N2K Cyberwire. We'd love to know what you think of this podcast. You can email us at space@n2k.com with your feedback or submit the survey in the show notes. Your feedback ensures that we deliver the information that keeps you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. T-Minus Deep Space is produced by Alice Carruth. Our associate producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Iben. Our executive editor is Brandon Karpf. Simone Petrella is our president, Peter Kilpie is our publisher, and I'm your host, Marie Varmazis. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] (gentle music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
