On January 28th 1986, Space Shuttle Challenger broke apart 73 seconds into its flight, killing all seven members on board. It was an accident witnessed by millions who were tuning in to see the first teacher, Krista McAuliffe, on her first mission. Instead of a statue in memory of the lives lost that day, the families of the Challenger crew established the Challenger Learning Centre to honour the crew's mission to inspire future generations of explorers. This is T-Minus Deep Space. I'm Alice Carruth. Our guest today is former NASA astronaut Dorothy Metcalf-Lindenberger. Dottie is the incoming chair of the Challenger Learning Centre's Board of Directors and shared how the education facilities are marking the 40 years since the Challenger disaster. I'm Dottie Metcalf-Lindenberger. I'm a retired NASA astronaut. I'm also a former high school science teacher, a mom, a geologist. I wear many different hats. I love that. I'm going to go through all of those different hats, hopefully, in this conversation today, Dotty. Obviously, we asked you on here today to talk about Challenger Learning centres. But before we get into that, I'd love to learn a little bit more about your background. Why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got involved in space? Yes. Well, I fell in love with space when I was a kid and realised that girls could go to space because it was 1983 when Sally Ride flew in space and I was a third grader. My parents were both people in STEM. My mom had been a high school math teacher and my dad had been a science middle school teacher. So, we were really paying attention and this was a big deal to me. But it's one thing to dream about space and understand that it's a big deal. It's quite another thing to understand how to actually prepare for it and set out to study, to be ready to join something like NASA. So, it would be when I was in middle school that I would get to 10 space camp in Huntsville, Alabama and actually hear about the things you need to study and prepare for to work at NASA. And then maybe you know, ultimately get to be an astronaut. And that was really important takeaway for me because I needed to know those next steps and I was able to go back and I, like I said, I really love science and math. And so, it was just natural for me in high school to get involved with things like science, Olympiad, outside of school, while also in the classroom just working really hard in my science and math classes. Well, just in all my classes, I really love to learn. I'm a committed lifelong learner. So, that started it. And then I went off to college. I chose a small liberal arts school where I could still be an athlete because I love to run. So, I ran cross country and track for the school. And I chose geology or more like I feel like geology chose me because one day I was in this intro class and then we were going out on field trips. And I realized like this is what makes me really passionate about science because you're studying about the past and you're looking at land formations that happened like maybe thousands to millions of years ago. But it has direct application into solving problems of today. And that just really captured my attention. So, I studied geology as an undergrad and then had fully planned to do the Peace Corps when graduating and had been assigned to Kazakhstan. But this was the 90s and things were unstable in Kazakhstan. And so, right before I was supposed to leave the Peace Corps told me I wasn't going to be able to go. And I felt like my path had been disrupted and I didn't really know how to quickly pivot other than I really needed a job. And having both of my parents had been teachers, they were encouraging me, well, if you were going to teach English in Kazakhstan for the Peace Corps, why don't you actually teach something that you're good at which is science. So, I did go back to school to get a teaching certification and that's how I became a high school science teacher. I was still in the back of my head of like I want to someday go work at NASA, right? So, but I got really involved with teaching and I loved bringing science to life for my students, making it hands-on, encouraging them. For many of them, it was really difficult and challenging. It's not something they felt comfortable with. So, really helping them overcome those hurdles. And eventually, I created an astronomy class too and didn't just teach earth science, but I did astronomy. And in one of those astronomy classes, we had just studied humans in spaceflight and a curious student asked me, like, how do you use the toilet in space or how do you go the bathroom in space? And I didn't know. I needed to look it up myself. So, I did. And in finding out a very good answer from NASA, I also found out that they were hiring teachers as part of the astronaut class of 2004. And it truly is one of those just like wonderful moments, kind of, you know, of some luck, but also the pursuit of curiosity that helped me find that. And so, I brought the answer back to the student in class, but I applied to the astronaut program as an educator astronaut. And then after about, I think it was probably about eight months of waiting, eventually, I got a call for the interview process. That was a week long process of medical tests and aptitude tests and of course, actual interviews. I even got to see a mockup of the space shuttle toilet. And then it was waiting again, waiting to find out if I was selected as part of that class. And of course, the call came in 2004 when I was teaching third period. So, that's how I became a NASA astronaut. I love that. I just, I feel like that's really fortuitous that you went to find an answer for a student and ended up becoming a NASA astronaut application. And one and done, you're very lucky. I don't know how many astronauts that can say that. But I would be remiss not asking about your time in space. You were part of the STS-131 crew. Could you tell me a little bit about that? Yes, our mission was one of the last shuttle missions, second to last flight of discovery. And we launched actually about 20 years to the day after I had gone to space camp. I think that's also pretty remarkable. And my crew was just really wonderful. We had four crew members that had already been to space, very seasoned astronauts as our leaders and mentors, and then three of us that were rookies. And the three of us had also been classmates. So, that's really special too. We were taking up a multi-purpose logistics module with other science experiments, a rack that specifically protects and allows for more instrumentation. And that it protected this very pristine window that looks out the lab. And it's called the Window Observation Rack Facility for Trekkie fans. It's the wharf. And so, we brought that up. We brought up a bedroom or a crew quarter for astronauts. And then, of course, like clothing, food, and like I said, several other science experiments. Really, we were helping leave the space station prepared for the next couple months, right? Because we knew that we would be retiring the space shuttle and then transitioning to a commercial vehicle. But we weren't exactly sure when all of that was going to happen. So, we wanted to pre-position the space station for the next couple of months. Additionally, we did an ammonia tank swap out. So, we took out the, not really failed, but it was empty. Ammonia tank is supposed to be a reservoir for the lines that help remove heat loads from the space station. And then, we installed this new ammonia tank. So, that was with a series of spacewalks. And it was just a really incredible 11 days docked at the space station, 15 days in space total. What an incredible experience. And I love the fact that you've continued to share that experience with others to inspire the next generation of explorers, which is what we bring us together today to talk about the Challenger Centers. Can you tell me a little bit about Challenger Center and the Learning Centers that you guys are part of? Yes. Challenger Centers are both physical places and then also places that offer many educational opportunities. So, let me kind of unpack that. First of all, physically, we have 33 places around the globe. We're always trying to grow. And so, we have a couple of new centers that will be coming on this year. That's exciting too. At these centers, there are simulators that are very much modeled off of a space station environment. So, there's the space station, but there's also the flight control team. So, there's also the mission control. And when students come in, they have been already assigned either that they're going to start on mission control or they're going to start in space as astronauts. They may be going to the moon. They may be on a Mars, a comet, or they could be repairing some satellites that we have going around low earth orbit. So, there's a couple different types of simulations that we have. And each of these simulations lasts for 90 minutes. About 45 minutes into the simulation, something happens where the crew and the ground swap, which is really special because then students get to be in both roles and really take on both of those aspects. So, that's physically what it's like. If you're on the control team, you are talking to crew members, but you are also working with screens and with different notebooks and different things that help you solve problems because, of course, there's going to be some problems in space. And if you're on the space side, you are conducting your objectives. So, you might be the medical doctor and trying to check out the health of the crew, or you might be working on a satellite and actually using a robotic arm. There's lots of different stations around that space station that a student is assigned to and working at. So, it's a great way to problem solve, communicate with your team, really take on a role that you're responsible for, and take that ownership. It's awesome. Now, I also said we have some remote capability too, and we're calling these satellite missions, but we recognize that it's challenging to get a bus and take a field trip to a Challenger Center or maybe get enough car rides there to get to the center. So, for schools that can't do that or for schools that want some more opportunities, right? Like, maybe you have this really great hands-on opportunity, but you would also like to learn more about a different environment and space. Well, these remote opportunities are great too. And again, they're facilitated by a Challenger Center educator, and then it allows like a whole class to work together or a whole club. We also envision using this with scouts and after-school programs. So, it's a great way for kids to, we call it a satellite, but it's a great way for them to plug in from a remote area. I'm a big fan, as you know, of the Challenger Learning Centers. And there are no that aimed at a certain age group, but I remember doing one in last cruises a few years back, and we opened it up to the public, and I had an eight-year-old go through the simulation, and at the end of it, she came out and looked at me and she said, "Did I just go to Mars?" Exactly. She said, "What do you think?" And she said, "I felt like I did." I was like, "There you go." And I love that, that they come away with a full experience. And as a national, surely you must see that all the time in these centers. Yes, and she's not the only one that has really believed, and I think that's so wonderful, because that is truly the goal, is to convey that their work and their abilities are going to grow in this simulator, and that they have the capability to do these things, these hard things. So I love that, and it's really just rewarding. I also love that I had a chance, like I think about two or three years ago, to take my parents, and they worked both on the ground and in space, and they came away like, that was really intense. But you know, for people in their late 70s and early almost 80, it was an opportunity, it pushed them, right? It made them use technology that they don't necessarily feel as comfortable with either. So I like to say they are targeting, yes, a certain age group, but they're really for the young to the young at heart. We'll be right back. Now, obviously, the Challenger Learning Center bore out of a disaster that happened that's coming up to the 40th anniversary of when that happened. Could you tell me a bit about the background of how the Challenger Center came about, and how you got involved in it as well? Yes. So on January 28th of 1986, the Challenger vehicle was launching seven crew members, and they did launch. They were 73 seconds into their flight when this explosion happened, and they lost their lives. But their family members knew that this mission was about education earlier, about a year and a half earlier. President Ronald Reagan had announced that the first citizen astronaut would be a teacher, and Kristen McCullough was a high school history teacher, and social studies teacher. So she was on this mission. All of the crew members have extensive education backgrounds as far as their own investments in their own education, and they cared about the mission as well. And so the families, rather than just this being loss and a really tragic loss, they decided to create the Challenger Center. And initially, it started out with one. And I've just been reading about the background from Dr. June Scobie's autobiography. And I didn't realize they had worked with Disney and Star Trek and different museums that come together with how do you make a simulator that really truly is going to make eight-year-olds and fifth or eighth graders feel like they've gone to space? And so that's what they did. And they, of course, started with one. And then it grew into multiple centers that kind of work like franchises that use this software and use these simulators that are provided by a core Challenger Center that go out to these individual locations. My first opportunity to learn about Challenger Centers was actually when I returned from my flight. So I'd kind of heard a little bit of buzz about them, but I had never been to one while in my own training and just working at NASA. But when I came back from STS-131, we were touring as a crew and happened to be in Colorado Springs. We were going to the Air Force Academy for our pilot Jim Dutton, who graduated there. And this also was where I was born, was in Colorado Springs. So I was glad to be along. And one of our outreach events was going to be at the Colorado Springs Challenger Center. So we pulled up and lo and behold, I was also once again with my parents. They were really excited that I was in Colorado and that's where they live still. And so they had come along for this afternoon piece. And this turns out that the old Challenger Center was hosted in the same middle school that my dad had taught at. So it was just a really special moment to reflect on that, that this is where my dad's teaching opportunity had started and then to walk in and see these kids. Now I was really impressed having just come back from space to see even in this case, it was considered a kind of an older simulator because a couple years later, Colorado Springs is going to remodel and they have this fabulous center that's completely standalone and in a different location. But at the time, I still thought, wow, this is an amazing simulator both from the space side where the students were doing, like I said, things with robotic arms and glove boxes and pretending like they're going out for a spacewalk and then also on the mission control side. So it was just really neat to see it in action. After I retired from NASA and had been out of the core for maybe three years, I got a phone call from Kent Ramanjer who had been the chief of our astronaut office when I first became an astronaut. And Kent has flown in space multiple times and he asked me if I would join the board. So he was already on the board and he wanted to bring me on as a new member. And I had to say yes. I mean, it stands for all the things I care about, right? It stands for education. It stands for space, education and STEM. And as an educator, I know how valuable hands-on experiences like this are. So I said yes. And from then on, I have been a member of the board. I've had a chance to be a part of the, or to chair the education committee. And then this past August, I agreed that I would really like to be the chair-elect. So this August, I will be, with everything still goes as planned, I will be the chair of the Challenger board. Wow. And what a year to be the chair of the board because as we mentioned, we are coming up to that 40th anniversary of the Challenger disaster, but also the 40th anniversary of the Challenger centers that was set up very quickly after the fact. What is it you've got planned for this year to celebrate 40 years of education and a great outreach that you guys have managed to do? Yes. So already we are announcing the different activities that are coming up. So we have descriptions of each crew member and then lessons that help you identify with that crew member, because each of them has something that stands out as pretty unique about them. And so these lessons are now available and live on the website and they're for free. So educators all across the globe can use them. Additionally, we will be doing events throughout the centers that are like synced up. And so those are happening as early as next week with the actual anniversary of the Challenger flight. That's the 28th of January. Then we turn right around and in February we're reading across the centers together. And then there's just a series of events that go on throughout the whole year. We wanted to do things that go throughout the year, but that also remind us that what we're doing already is great. And we want to keep launching the next generation. So we're not doing one event that's all-encompassing, but we're doing these multiple events really to highlight different centers and to highlight the educational experiences that we do. And so I hope that people get online. They start to learn about the seven crew members. It's a great way to reflect. And then it's also an awesome way, like I said, to sign up your classroom and bring them into our centers or sign up for one of these satellite events. And then also look forward throughout the year centers will hold STEM days. So I've been multiple times to Michigan, but I know also I've been remotely to Tallahassee. These events happen all around our centers and then also camps. So I know that several of our centers, both for the spring breaks, which vary across states, but also summer breaks have just incredible opportunities for kids to come in for a day to multiple days and really do some great STEM learning. We'll make sure we include a link to the Challenger Center website so you can find out more about them all. You're very passionate when it comes to education. I love that about you, Dotty. Why is it you feel the need to help educate others about space? I feel like I just had really awesome educators. Like I said, both my parents happened to be my first STEM educators, but also I just always felt like my teachers were really passionate about what they were doing too. And from middle school, when I had a biology teacher who taught us how to make fuel from our food waste to my science Olympiad coach and chemistry teacher in high school, I just really had these great STEM teachers. Additionally, I will always love my calculus teacher because he was also my cross-country coach. So I think that seeing others teach you, like it brought out the passion in me. And I just think it's so critical for all of us to have as firm of a STEM foundation as we can because we're just globally, we are faced with many challenges that have to do with STEM. And so you don't have to want that to be your career. I get that, that we need to have lots of different passions, but I do want to make sure that the public is as educated as possible so that they can make important decisions about their own life and then also influence what's happening in their community. And what would you like the public to know about space? What do you think is important for them to be able to know about it? Well, I am thrilled that we are going back to the moon and going in a different way and a way that will allow us to understand it better, but also to probably utilize its resources and then help get us on to Mars. And I love that that's also going to be in February. NASA is targeting February 6th and I wasn't alive. You definitely weren't alive, Alice, but our kids are going to get this opportunity to see Artemis too. And really, space is our future from the technology that we're using right now to make this podcast to the ability to do really complex and difficult things and solve problems in the future. Space is going to be at the frontier of that. So I'm really thrilled to see that coming in just a few weeks. That's it for Team Miner's Deep Space brought to you by N2K Cyberwire. We'd love to know what you think of this podcast. Your feedback ensures we deliver the insights that keep you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. If you like the show, please share a rating and review in your podcast app. Or you can send us an email to space@n2k.com. That's the letter N, the number 2 K. We're proud that N2K Cyberwire is part of the daily routine of the most influential leaders and operators in the public and private sector. From the Fortune 500 to many of the world's preeminent intelligence and law enforcement agencies, N2K helps space and cybersecurity professionals grow, learn and stay informed. As the Nexus for Discovery and Connection, we bring you the people, technology and ideas shaping the future of secure innovation. Learn how at N2K.com.
N2K's producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliott Peltzman and Tre Hester with original music by Elliott Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Eiben. Peter Kilpie is our publisher. T-minus' regular host is Maria Varmazis and I'm senior producer Alice Carruth. Thanks for listening. [Music] [MUSIC]
