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>> Maria Varmazis: Welcome to T-Minus Deep Space from N2K Networks. I'm Maria Varmazis, host of the T-Minus Space Daily Podcast. And Deep Space includes extended interviews and bonus content for a deeper look into some of the topics that we cover on our Daily program.
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In the aftermath of the Challenge STS-51L tragedy, the crew's families came together, firmly committed to carrying on the spirit of their loved ones by continuing their education mission. In April 1986, these families created the Challenger Center for Space Science Education. And the families' vision was to create a place that would inspire children, where students could conduct experiments, collaborate to solve problems, and immerse themselves in spacelike surroundings. Their goal was to spark an interest and joy in STEM. And that spark would change the trajectory of children's futures.
To date, Challenge Center has reached more than 6 million students globally and continues to inspire hundreds of thousands of students every year.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: My name is Kirsten Hibbard, and I'm the Executive Director at the Challenger Learning Center of Maine, and we're located up in beautiful Bangor, Maine. And we're one of actually many U.S. Challenger Learning Centers available to students. And at our centers, we run virtual and in-person NASA-like mission simulations. So, students get to come in as if they worked as mission controllers and astronauts and do missions that really replicate things that -- missions that have happened at NASA or will happen. I mean, great missions like going back to the moon, going to Mars, or even collecting samples from a comet.
>> Maria Varmazis: Okay, that's awesome. I -- that is so cool. I am pretty sure I went to a Challenger Center when I was a kid at some point, because I -- I remember doing something like -- and I mean, I'm not a spring chicken, so this was probably when they were very new. But, yes, that is so cool and so fun. Who wouldn't love doing something like that? Okay, but I'm a space nerd, so of course I think that.
Kirsten, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so excited to be talking to you, not just about the Challenger Learning Centers, but also specifically yours, the Challenger Learning Center of Maine. So, as you mentioned, there are a lot of Challenger Learning Centers across the country. Listeners may not be aware of exactly how many. Could you set us -- the stage for us, please?
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Yes, so Challenger Center Headquarters is in D.C., but you know, we always call them kind of HQ or the Mother Ship, but -- and they--
>> Maria Varmazis: Yes.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: -and they really help -- really help centers. There are 35 centers all over the U.S. in lots and lots of different states. There are a couple with two in one state, but ours for example, we're kind of located centrally in Maine. And so, we serve all of Maine. Literally all 16 counties of Maine because the goal of Challenger Centers really is to create STEM-inspiring opportunities. So, we're located in different types of situations. So, some centers are part of college campuses. Some are part of science museums. We're a stand-alone center, you know? But it really is unique to different communities across the U.S.
>> Maria Varmazis: That's cool that they -- they're sort of tailored to the different communities they're in, because I didn't know -- I'm learning so much today. This is so neat, because as I said, I remember the one that I went to as a kid at Framingham, Mass, and that was part of a college campus. But -- so yours is a stand-alone in Maine. So, tell me a bit about yours.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Yes, so this upcoming March will be our 20th anniversary.
>> Maria Varmazis: Yay, congrats.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: And -- yay. We were a chosen--
>> Maria Varmazis: That's huge.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: --[inaudible] big, big. And it's -- it really is amazing then how many students we've served. And you know, students within their own professional timeline, you know, are now adults for some of the first students, but we were started in Bangor, Maine. Really trying to be central. We're in a very large, rural state. So, saying, "Where can we put our center so that it -- you know, students from the far corners, right on the Canadian border could come down and visit us, and you know, really for it to be an opportunity to kind of go to this off-site laboratory, you know? Not off earth, but off-site.
>> Maria Varmazis: Not yet. Maybe one day?
>> Kirsten Hibbard: And -- but it's just amazing that we have students come but for rural students, it really is a big deal to come on a fieldtrip. Get out of their classroom. So, our center, if people can envision it, if they walk into a building that you know, has these great murals and images from all kinds of missions but then there are rooms that really are modeled after NASA's mission control rooms. And we have what is the inside of a spacecraft. And then we called our space laboratory almost really like the inside of what would be a space station. And we kind of -- we have a great software that can really cue up different mission objectives for students, for older students, younger students, but -- and we serve K-12, but our primary audience is 5th through 8th graders. Those middle schoolers, we want to have a really great positive experience around STEM, and we really do that in a role-playing scenario.
>> Maria Varmazis: Yes, and that's hot right now. So, that's [inaudible]. Everybody's into D and D. So, you can do D and D, but space.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Yes, oh yes.
>> Maria Varmazis: I mean also, what a great way to learn, though. And again, I'm just going to just not reminisce too much about my experience, but I remember it was super fun. But a kid walks in. They've been brought in on a field trip. Maybe they're like, "I'm not super into the sciency stuff." Like what is their day like? How do you sort of get that sparkle to happen of like connection?
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Yes. A really wonderful connection is we work really closely with the educators before the students even get here. Sometimes students will fill out a job application. So, like a middle schooler has not filled out a job application, but it gets them thinking about, "Okay, this is skills that I have, or things I would need." And then they actually rank. "These are jobs I think I want to try." And that educator, he or she is the key, because they will push a student. Say, "You should try that. You should try robotics. You should try it," or "Did you know there's a job about space weather?" You know? Or, "Yes, let's do navigation." Engineering, a medical team. And so, a student then once they come in, they've been assigned to a job team in mission control or as an astronaut and they -- we welcome them. They have a crew manifest. And then they get -- even get a job badge, like a real job badge you'd scan to enter your job. And from that point on, they're that STEM professional. In fact, we call them by their job title, not by their name. So, they are truly that job title. We go over their mission objectives and say, "You know, as a navigator today, these are your responsibilities." Or some med team, or as the aero engineering team. And they really--
>> Maria Varmazis: Kind of sweaty. I'm a little nervous.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Well, a middle-schooler will be like, "You trust me?" And we're like, it's basically handing the keys to the car and saying, "You're going to drive today, but I have the confidence that you can do this. You're going to do it well, and we're going to have a great mission today."
>> Maria Varmazis: I believe you when you say that. I totally -- I am like, "Yes, I am." So, I'm very glad that you do this for a living. So, like, I'm with you. I'm ready to do this now.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: It's an intense mission. It's like two, two-and-a-half hours. So, in that mission, they're really from top to bottom, going through their mission objectives, and it really is about you know, those science objectives of while we're in the mission, we want to gain this knowledge, do these experiments, so we can learn and gain knowledge about living off earth, and how we can go deeper into space. And -- but, you know, Maria, halfway through the software, we always make it so something goes not as planned, as in true life. So, they have to do that classic risk assessment. You know, we want to get the science -- these science projects done, but we want to keep the crew safe. And they have to decide as a team. We don't let their educators, our staff, they get to decide, "How are we going to move forward with this mission?"
And so, man, it's great. It's intense. It's an intense two, two-and-a-half hours, but at the end, wow, how powerful when they have had control and have had a great mission. Like man, they own that success. And there are jobs like communication. You know, we also say that you know, you don't have to be an astronaut. There's actually very few astronauts. There's all these jobs, 40,000 jobs just at NASA, you know, that are supporting these missions. We need communication specialists. We need reporters to tell these stories.
So, it's -- for those students that don't think STEM is their space, it's even saying, "But did you like this? There is a place for you here." You know, and too, "If this brought you job, you can share that and be a part of it." And so, yes, oh, breaking down all those barriers.
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>> Maria Varmazis: We'll be right back.
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That is so important, and I love hearing you say that because that is, as I've said many times, I didn't need much convincing. I was not the kid who needed to be told, "Hey, space is for you." I was like, "I want to go. Just send me." But it's, for many other people who are, you know, for kids who are going, "I don't even know if science is for me. I don't even know if like -- what does this mean for me? Like, I don't see a path. I don't see -- I don't have any interest." And getting that ah-ha, this is actually something cool that maybe is attainable. Like, not knowing that there's a way in, is life changing. It's really life changing. And I know that for your center, especially in Maine, like you guys have a specific mission for sort of raising people up, specifically in Maine and sort of encouraging people to go more into higher education. Can you talk a little bit about that?
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Yes, so while we go -- you know, we focus on the mission, the mission objectives. Actually, during mid-mission and the post-mission, you know, it's really talking about STEM careers. And this is where we really highlight even local companies. You know, it's part of the STEM pipeline of saying, "You can live and work in Maine. And there are these colleges and universities right here in Maine, some right down the road, where you can actually get this degree. You know, but you really want to start thinking about a two, four-year degree, extended degrees. And they can be all different pathways." And you know, we highlight some of those. An easy one for us is we have a wonderful Maine astronaut, you know, and a retired Maine astronaut that had very different professional journeys. And it was not always a yes, a yes. You know, multiple applications even to become an astronaut. So, saying that if the attitude is there, if the work is there, and if you want to be a part of this, you can. You know, and then just hear the ways to connect those dots. But saying that with middle schoolers, not starting in high school. Really saying, "All right, middle schoolers, let's talk about this now and think about this now for you." And kind of a newer term that, you know, we have is that STEM cells efficacy. It's an individual belief, right, of positive experience, you know, so that that person you know, has control over their success in STEM that they can do it. That I could do this in STEM. Maybe I don't want to, but I had a great experience. So, I could, you know?
And a neat thing too about our state is, we have been growing leaps and bounds by reaching rural students. I mean, we have schools that their whole sixth grade is 15 students. Is 15. In fact, we connected with a one-room schoolhouse in Whiting, Maine. Their--
>> Maria Varmazis: Oh, blessed.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Their -- they had -- so there are two classrooms in their whole school. One of them is for middle school, 6th through 8th grade. Very small. Ten students or less, but the neat thing is, if they can't come to us for geographic barriers, we actually reach to them with virtual missions. So, same concept. From their own classroom, there are one-to-one devices, they're mission controllers, we're at the front of the room in those smart boards and blue suits, helping control the software. But same idea. They have a positive experience about a Mars mission or a moon mission, talking about STEM careers, even in a rural setting. Because to us, whether you're a school of 15 students or 300, we want to connect with students and really kind of create equity with some experiences.
>> Maria Varmazis: You've got to have so many stories of like kids who walked in there going, "Oh, I don't want to be an astronaut, so why am I here?" And then walked out going, "I didn't even know I could do X, or you know?" You must have so many. Like any one to share, because I'm so curious.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Well, it's neat, too. So, traditionally it's math or science teachers that come, but sometimes you know, any teacher really is helping create this experience. And it's small connections to large connections. So, I always like to peak in and pop in at missions. And so, there was a navigation station, right? Classic. You know, trying to find the exact coordinates for this comet. And this student, we tell the teachers, you know, "Just, you're an observer," right? "Let the students do this. " This student -- and the teacher's kind of keeping an eye. Making sure he was behaved. But he looks up and goes, "I'm using X, Y coordinates. We just did this in class. I'm using this here. This is real life." And the teacher's like, "Yes, yes."
>> Maria Varmazis: Yes.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: But, and so of course, all those great things, you know? "Oh, yes. This is applicable to life," you know? But he was like, "I learned this, and I can do this here. Oh, yes. And then once I do this, then I'm in charge of throttle and touchdown," you know? So, then it's like, "Oh, this is even more fun," right? "And I knew that small part to do this job, maybe I could do this job in the future?" I mean, powerful. Powerful.
>> Maria Varmazis: Powerful. Really powerful. I could honestly, and I'm not exaggerating, I could listen to stories like that all day, because they make me so happy. I came from a family, my dad was a physics guy. Like very, very sciency. And I took for granted how much that exposure meant that I -- I saw a realistic path for certain ways into science. And how much, if you don't have that, it can see so abstract, and so like, what is this for? I don't get it. What's this mean to me? But when you have these experiences like at your center, like it can -- I'm sorry. I'm being [inaudible]. But it really can change lives. And I just really admire what you do. So--.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: Well, I have one more good example of that, if that's okay? Twenty percent of our business, I mean, not to get like, I love data, so that's why I chose like -- twenty percent of our business is actually going off-site. We actually found pre-COVID, we were like, "Oh, just come to our center," right? But you know, being a STEM and formal education institution, COVID made us push beyond our walls virtually, but really said, "You know, we're going to meet the students' educators where they're at." So, 20% of the time, we will take an activity and travel to the school. You know, and it always has that STEM space, fun, hands-on element, but something really neat that we've also tried to add is parents, guardians, foster families, right, all those family units, they're actually a strong part of supporting a student, should they get excited about STEM. And so, it's breaking down the stigma of STEM for parents of saying, "You know, maybe you think it's scary? You're like, 'Oh, math is hard' or 'Science isn't my thing,' but--." So, we've tended to stay in those communities into the evening, and support what we call like Family STEM Nights, right? So, saying to a parent, "Come on down. Come be a part of this. And do these stations, do these hands-on activities with your students. Get excited. Share that excitement with your students so that you can be the supporter, should they choose that they want to try this, too." So, I think it's breaking down, you know, barriers for students and creating that positive space for a supporting parent, family, too.
>> Maria Varmazis: Yes, I've seen that so many times where it's like, you know you've got a kid who's really -- maybe a kid who's really bright and very interested in science, but you, mom or dad, are both, no clue about any of this. And it's not a ding on you. It's just not who you are. And you're going, "I don't even know where to start." So, that's very empowering for the parent. What a wonderful thing to be doing.
You were talking about something so important that I know many in our audience are really interested in about sort of, we don't need to be sold on how cool space is, and how important STEM is, for the most part. But we, you know, there are a lot of kids that maybe we aren't reaching that we should, or maybe our messaging is not effective. There's a lot of questions about what are we doing maybe that we're not doing as well as we could be, or what should we be doing better? From your perspective, from someone who's working with kids all the time, like what can we do more effectively to reach kids?
>> Kirsten Hibbard: I love that question. In fact, I'm glad you asked, and I hope more people ask. And I have a short, quick, you could do this immediately within a month answer and long-term. So, my short answer is, all right, you are a STEM professional. You love space. You can give your time as easy as, I was just at a conference with teachers. You know, and they're who we work with the most, and they said, "We just want to connect with professional, and really highlight them, you know, 'Hey, talk about your career. Talk about your pathway to that career. Talk about most importantly your passion,' right?" So, if you're that engineer, usually in your cubicle working away, you know what/ Take an hour out of you time, reach out to your local school, say, "I'd love to Zoom." You don't even have to go into the classroom, right? For 45 minutes of a Zoom session, teachers -- there are teachers that want to connect you with the students to learn about you, your profession, that pathway.
And then I think the bigger connection is, you might be a leader within your business. Reach out to your school districts and say, "Hey, we'd like to support your schools or programs in these ways." They have great STEM programs, and many times, if those local businesses, those jobs supporters, right, of their communities, connect with the education world, those educators, they'll help get you connected. And then there are great informal education institutions, like the Challenger Centers. Other ones, great museums. That can help create those pathways to really kind of -- that trifecta of business and education and informal education to support students. So, really lots of great ways, but could be as started as reaching out to that one educator in your community.
>> Maria Varmazis: And that's a very actionable thing for people. So, people, get on it. You heard it. You heard the advice. Go for it. That's very, very doable. I know someone's listening in a cubicle right now going, "Yes, yes, yes." No, no, no. You can do that. You can do this. Anything you wanted to sort of conclude with? Anything I didn't ask you about that you wanted to mention? I want to sort of give you the floor to address it.
>> Kirsten Hibbard: I love follow-up information. I think a big thing is saying, "Wow, Challenger sounds great. How can I connect?" So, Challenger.org again, is our organization where you can look up, see if there's a Challenger Center near you. And if there's not, we -- Challenger Centers like Maine, connect virtually with centers all over the U.S., and actually internationally. So, there's really great tools in place to get connected. So, Challenger.org has great information. And then locally, for our own center, Astronut.org tells you even more about our center here in Maine. And again, please reach out, even if you're just kind of interested, reach out. We want to help connect as you as -- in person, you know, as a listener, interested in the space community, because we are too.
>> Maria Varmazis: Thank you so, so much. I'm so glad we were able to connect. This was a joy. Thank you so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it.
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That's it for T-Minus Deep Space for December the 23rd, 2023. T-Minus will be taking a break from our Daily Show for the holiday week, and we'll be sharing some of the best of shows from interviews that we've conducted this year. We'll be back to our Daily Intelligence Briefings on January 2nd, 2024. In the meantime, we'd love to know what you think of this podcast. You can email us at space@n2k.com or submit the survey in the show notes. Your feedback ensures that we deliver the information that keeps you a step ahead in the rapidly changing space industry. This episode was produced by Alice Caruth. Mixing by Elliott Peltzman and Trey Hester, with original music and sound design by Elliott Peltzman. Our Executive Producer is Jen Eiben. Our VP is Brandon Karpf. And I'm Maria Varmazis. Thanks for listening. And have a Happy New Year.
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